Shamanism and Ayahuasca ceremony difficulties. Discussions with Arutam Ruymán in Geneva, Switzerland.

First Discussion    Question: I had a very powerful dream yesterday, with a lot of visions. The whole night. And I was very negative. I have the feeling that I was in a rollercoaster. I think that place was not bearable, or I couldn’t take it... so I felt I was dying. Once, twice, three times. A thousand times. I think there was nothing left of me. And at the same time I was in peace.  Ruymán: that’s okey.  Q: at the same time I felt that sense that it was absolutely necessary, and I was grateful that I went through it. That’s crazy.  Ruymán: It was totally necessary. It was your first vision, right?  Q: When you were chanting, playing this chant, I had a very close connection, I felt that a lot of negative bad stuff came out.  Ruymán: It’s what you’re trying, when I’m singing in that way. I’m somehow squeezing all your organs, all the knots in your self. And when I’m somehow twisting everything, the shadow drops out. And you can feel how the dark shade is coming out, and you’re releasing it. But it happens in the beginning, because it’s your first time, it’s pretty painful. In fact, you feel that somehow you’re being hurted. You’re like dying. And sometimes it’s a sort of agony. Many people confuses, especially if they’re not mature, they confuses this with a bad experience. But, you know, it’s not about experience. And one of the proofs, a practical proof is that today, in your next ceremony, will be different. And you will notice it. And you will sense perfectly all the cleaning that you worked on yesterday, you will feel more light. It will help you to go deeper, with less shade and less resistance, and you will perceive much more clearer. When I saw you in the very beginning, you were coming not only with resistance, of a whole life, feed it, nourished. You were coming with a certain caring on certain pain. Mixed with some sadness, at the same time. And these things are deep, these things are absolutely moving. And my ceremonies are, in this sense, too strong. They’re only for serious seekers. Otherwise no one would be ready to go on, to resist such a transformation. Because if you notice, as well as you’re describing, the transformation wasn’t only in the mind and the heart of it. It’s pretty difficult. It’s even in the nervous system, in the body. So I don’t stop. I don’t give you much time to breath. So really I congratulate you because somehow today you’re today sitting up here, talking. And somehow you had that yesterday a lot. And now you come and share it out with all of us.  Q: I was pretty devastated this morning, because of the painful experience that I’ve had in my life, but there were some positive things as well that I later realized today and I felt a tremendous amount of gratitude and goodness as well. Part of the journey.  Ruymán: one of the most difficult things of this truthfull paths, well taught and well transmitted, is that you have to taste –somehow- the darkness, and the shade that we’re carrying on in our whole life. And that’s a pure madness. You see your own madness. And so sometimes it looks so real. But you have the opportunity to confront it, to face it before you. Otherwise, in a normal life, that’s so heavenly and to deeply stored, that there’s no way to touch it. Believe me: this is your first day, this is your first time, doing one of the most truthfull practices, that I think nowadays you can find, so you’ve done well. So, cheer up! Today I’m gonna check you, personally, I’m gonna follow up.  ----Note---- Next ceremony day, Ruymán decided help him directly, he put a blessed enchantment on his Ayahuasca and later on blew him, he had the deepest and best experience of his spiritual life path. Specially due to his hard previous day work, where he released many dark tendencies.    Second discussion    Q. I think I came with a lot of expectations, and I had ideas of what should happen or what would happen through the night. And actually nothing happened really. I mean, nothing in a very practical or a very clear way. So I didn’t have any visons, I didn’t have any clear messages, i don't know, perhaps I didn’t drink enough.  Ruymán:Did you throw up?  Q. After the second time I was having a lot of movement, but I couldn’t throw up, I didn’t have any fluids, I guess. I was fighting, basically, but I couldn’t.  Ruymán. And what do you want to throw up.  Q. I think it’s my girl friend. She left me a while ago. I spoke and listened to her.  Ruymán: well, all the cases are different. So probably you didn’t have enogh energy to light up the visions. The Natem stayed more in this area, the roots of your being, trying to renovate your energy. So this is the reason why it wasn’t so strong. The medicine we took yesterday was full of the Yaji leafs. This is the visionary part of the mixture. You need a higher concentration in the vines, where is the anacond power that can arise. The anacond, create the vision, empowering your energy. I think today we’re going to try another. More rich in the vine. And I will drink it much time before, so I will know very well what you’re going to take. Anyway, don’t worry, because a lot of work has been done. You will begin from a new point, from a new spot.  Q. I noticed that during the night I came more and more into the body, became more relaxed and calm. But it was very subtle.  Ruymán. Yes. But a lot of work has been done and a lot of sacred touch has been restored. So, today you’re starting from a higher level, and it’s probable that if the medicine is more rich in the vine –probably yes- and caring your dosage personally, I think we will have success. But it’s important to improve your energy level, because otherwise…  Q. Shoul I increase the dosage?  Ruymán. You should increase the dosage, but I let you know. Don’t drink without me, okay? We’ll do it together. Also you're very affected by your ex girlfriend. And that is a problem as well. Probably your mind is pretty trapped in that cicle, and you’re depressed. Many things are working against you. But let’s see how it goes today.    Third discussion    Q. I always feel very weak with few wishes to start new things. This night I felt this very clear and today I'm pretty tired. During the night the effect was very light.  Ruymán. Yes, I can see clearly how the Arutam's caress is weak in you. I don’t have to see your pulse. I can see it in your attitude, in your way of speaking, in the colour of your skin. That’s a problem because you need life and energy to reach higer states of consciuness. How many spoons did you take? A lot I guess, a high amount of it. You took six spoons, right?  Q. Eight.  Ruymán. It’s madness. It could fetch down a horse (laughs). The Shamanism is working with the real Arutam’s caress. If we don’t have it, it doesn’t work. So easy. Because of this: we try to eat very well, very nutricious food, but very light, so we don’t waste energy. We take a lot of care regarding to sex, because, in men, ejaculation is the way to weaken the sacred touch and the roots of ourself. And we try to keep harmony, and the perfect balance, guiding our lives with Tobacco, and living in the proper place, in the proper peace, close to nature, and taking a lot of time to our self, to meditate and taking care of these depths, these reaches that we’re discovering in the ceremony. It is the way to keep the Arutam’s touch very intensely within you. If you take a couple of drops of Natem, that’s enough to light up all the energy that we have already kept, but if we don’t do this, and, you know, do the opposite, for example, if we take relaxing substances like farmaceutical drugs, or even natural drugs like opium or cannabis or this kind of things, we’re working weakening a lot the Sacred Touch. We have to recover ourselves a little bit more first by changing our life’s habits, and, of course, if is needed, by using the herbal medicine: roots, plants, leafs. That if you know very well how to make a diagnose on how to choose the herbs, it’s very possible to recover a lot in the sacred touch. Imagine: if we live our whole life rejecting on working on Arutam’s sacred touch, and then we drink Natem and all this is recovered and we enter in a sacred extasis with the Great Mystery, imagine: I would be very famous, and rich. That’s impossible. And few people want to really learn or practice Shamanism in the right way, because most of the people really don’t want to change in that weird state of pleasure, where they use to say. There’s people who have suffered enough in life, and really don’t have a chance. Many people. Much more than others. And for them, when they approach to Shamanism, they really want to change. They realy want to find a way to remember where they came from, where they are, and how to heal themselves. And it works if you have the will power, and you redirect yourself, focus, you can get whatever you want with Shamanism. In the tradition, Uwishin is the name of Shaman. The Uwishin is somehow providing the medicine, the Natem, to the students; also to help the people who are in a quest; more often to very ill people, to help in their healing, and the Shaman is increasing with them the presence of the Spirit very powerfully. And the people get in trance, and those who are in the quest, find the answers, find their paths, and have really deep and blessed insights. Those who need to be healed, feel how the energy is really increasing, and the body is starting to really remember how it should sense life like recently born. And the students are learning how the Shaman is doing this. So, in the tradition, in the house of the visions, we have all this things, all together. But nothing is possible if we don’t pay attention to the previous remarks. Everything is explained just by the sensation. And the wisest man is the one who has found the last -the clearest- union with his spirit, the last sensation, and is caring for it. This is the wisest man: the one who left behind the clouds of confusion of the extremes, of the rational mind memories, the self recognition, and can sing like the Tucan on a tree, or the acuatic Tiger in the river, the Anaconda soaked in the swamp. That’s why in our rituals we dedicate the whole night just only to adore Arutam, and go deeply in the crystal of existence, and cry singing his blessings, sparkling the light of deep visions.    Fourth discussion    Q. Might I ask you something? It’s my second time, and I still vomit too much, not being able to go deep enough within me.  Ruymán. I see that, during the ceremony, that you take the medicine and then you go inside your blanquets quickly, and you don’t want to know about anything. I think there’s a part of you that is somehow trying to come back to your same self constantly, isolating you from the world, and then closing yourself. When the process start going deeply, the cold arrives, the forgotten sacred touch caresses your heart depths,close to your conscious or present sensation, you reject it quickly. You throw it out. That’s my impression about you.  Q. Yes, I think something’s coming, but I stop it somehow.  Ruymán: so you want to change this?  Q. Yes, everything. Everything.  Ruymán. So I’ll help you to deal with this. So don’t drink without me. I will give you the Natem. I will make an enchantment for you. But, please: make the effort. Don’t throw up quickly. And this time try to be more with us, Ok? Look at me. Sometimes I will be laid down, and sometimes I will be sitting with all of you, crying the Arutam's joy. Sometimes I will be meditating. Try to be more active. Don’t enter in your little world and hide under the blankets.

First Discussion

Question: I had a very powerful dream yesterday, with a lot of visions. The whole night. And I was very negative. I have the feeling that I was in a rollercoaster. I think that place was not bearable, or I couldn’t take it... so I felt I was dying. Once, twice, three times. A thousand times. I think there was nothing left of me. And at the same time I was in peace.

Ruymán: that’s okey.

Q: at the same time I felt that sense that it was absolutely necessary, and I was grateful that I went through it. That’s crazy.

Ruymán: It was totally necessary. It was your first vision, right?

Q: When you were chanting, playing this chant, I had a very close connection, I felt that a lot of negative bad stuff came out.

Ruymán: It’s what you’re trying, when I’m singing in that way. I’m somehow squeezing all your organs, all the knots in your self. And when I’m somehow twisting everything, the shadow drops out. And you can feel how the dark shade is coming out, and you’re releasing it. But it happens in the beginning, because it’s your first time, it’s pretty painful. In fact, you feel that somehow you’re being hurted. You’re like dying. And sometimes it’s a sort of agony. Many people confuses, especially if they’re not mature, they confuses this with a bad experience. But, you know, it’s not about experience. And one of the proofs, a practical proof is that today, in your next ceremony, will be different. And you will notice it. And you will sense perfectly all the cleaning that you worked on yesterday, you will feel more light. It will help you to go deeper, with less shade and less resistance, and you will perceive much more clearer. When I saw you in the very beginning, you were coming not only with resistance, of a whole life, feed it, nourished. You were coming with a certain caring on certain pain. Mixed with some sadness, at the same time. And these things are deep, these things are absolutely moving. And my ceremonies are, in this sense, too strong. They’re only for serious seekers. Otherwise no one would be ready to go on, to resist such a transformation. Because if you notice, as well as you’re describing, the transformation wasn’t only in the mind and the heart of it. It’s pretty difficult. It’s even in the nervous system, in the body. So I don’t stop. I don’t give you much time to breath. So really I congratulate you because somehow today you’re today sitting up here, talking. And somehow you had that yesterday a lot. And now you come and share it out with all of us.

Q: I was pretty devastated this morning, because of the painful experience that I’ve had in my life, but there were some positive things as well that I later realized today and I felt a tremendous amount of gratitude and goodness as well. Part of the journey.

Ruymán: one of the most difficult things of this truthfull paths, well taught and well transmitted, is that you have to taste –somehow- the darkness, and the shade that we’re carrying on in our whole life. And that’s a pure madness. You see your own madness. And so sometimes it looks so real. But you have the opportunity to confront it, to face it before you. Otherwise, in a normal life, that’s so heavenly and to deeply stored, that there’s no way to touch it. Believe me: this is your first day, this is your first time, doing one of the most truthfull practices, that I think nowadays you can find, so you’ve done well. So, cheer up! Today I’m gonna check you, personally, I’m gonna follow up.

----Note---- Next ceremony day, Ruymán decided help him directly, he put a blessed enchantment on his Ayahuasca and later on blew him, he had the deepest and best experience of his spiritual life path. Specially due to his hard previous day work, where he released many dark tendencies.

Second discussion

Q. I think I came with a lot of expectations, and I had ideas of what should happen or what would happen through the night. And actually nothing happened really. I mean, nothing in a very practical or a very clear way. So I didn’t have any visons, I didn’t have any clear messages, i don't know, perhaps I didn’t drink enough.

Ruymán:Did you throw up?

Q. After the second time I was having a lot of movement, but I couldn’t throw up, I didn’t have any fluids, I guess. I was fighting, basically, but I couldn’t.

Ruymán. And what do you want to throw up.

Q. I think it’s my girl friend. She left me a while ago. I spoke and listened to her.

Ruymán: well, all the cases are different. So probably you didn’t have enogh energy to light up the visions. The Natem stayed more in this area, the roots of your being, trying to renovate your energy. So this is the reason why it wasn’t so strong. The medicine we took yesterday was full of the Yaji leafs. This is the visionary part of the mixture. You need a higher concentration in the vines, where is the anacond power that can arise. The anacond, create the vision, empowering your energy. I think today we’re going to try another. More rich in the vine. And I will drink it much time before, so I will know very well what you’re going to take. Anyway, don’t worry, because a lot of work has been done. You will begin from a new point, from a new spot.

Q. I noticed that during the night I came more and more into the body, became more relaxed and calm. But it was very subtle.

Ruymán. Yes. But a lot of work has been done and a lot of sacred touch has been restored. So, today you’re starting from a higher level, and it’s probable that if the medicine is more rich in the vine –probably yes- and caring your dosage personally, I think we will have success. But it’s important to improve your energy level, because otherwise…

Q. Shoul I increase the dosage?

Ruymán. You should increase the dosage, but I let you know. Don’t drink without me, okay? We’ll do it together. Also you're very affected by your ex girlfriend. And that is a problem as well. Probably your mind is pretty trapped in that cicle, and you’re depressed. Many things are working against you. But let’s see how it goes today.

Third discussion

Q. I always feel very weak with few wishes to start new things. This night I felt this very clear and today I'm pretty tired. During the night the effect was very light.

Ruymán. Yes, I can see clearly how the Arutam's caress is weak in you. I don’t have to see your pulse. I can see it in your attitude, in your way of speaking, in the colour of your skin. That’s a problem because you need life and energy to reach higer states of consciuness. How many spoons did you take? A lot I guess, a high amount of it. You took six spoons, right?

Q. Eight.

Ruymán. It’s madness. It could fetch down a horse (laughs). The Shamanism is working with the real Arutam’s caress. If we don’t have it, it doesn’t work. So easy. Because of this: we try to eat very well, very nutricious food, but very light, so we don’t waste energy. We take a lot of care regarding to sex, because, in men, ejaculation is the way to weaken the sacred touch and the roots of ourself. And we try to keep harmony, and the perfect balance, guiding our lives with Tobacco, and living in the proper place, in the proper peace, close to nature, and taking a lot of time to our self, to meditate and taking care of these depths, these reaches that we’re discovering in the ceremony. It is the way to keep the Arutam’s touch very intensely within you. If you take a couple of drops of Natem, that’s enough to light up all the energy that we have already kept, but if we don’t do this, and, you know, do the opposite, for example, if we take relaxing substances like farmaceutical drugs, or even natural drugs like opium or cannabis or this kind of things, we’re working weakening a lot the Sacred Touch. We have to recover ourselves a little bit more first by changing our life’s habits, and, of course, if is needed, by using the herbal medicine: roots, plants, leafs. That if you know very well how to make a diagnose on how to choose the herbs, it’s very possible to recover a lot in the sacred touch. Imagine: if we live our whole life rejecting on working on Arutam’s sacred touch, and then we drink Natem and all this is recovered and we enter in a sacred extasis with the Great Mystery, imagine: I would be very famous, and rich. That’s impossible. And few people want to really learn or practice Shamanism in the right way, because most of the people really don’t want to change in that weird state of pleasure, where they use to say. There’s people who have suffered enough in life, and really don’t have a chance. Many people. Much more than others. And for them, when they approach to Shamanism, they really want to change. They realy want to find a way to remember where they came from, where they are, and how to heal themselves. And it works if you have the will power, and you redirect yourself, focus, you can get whatever you want with Shamanism. In the tradition, Uwishin is the name of Shaman. The Uwishin is somehow providing the medicine, the Natem, to the students; also to help the people who are in a quest; more often to very ill people, to help in their healing, and the Shaman is increasing with them the presence of the Spirit very powerfully. And the people get in trance, and those who are in the quest, find the answers, find their paths, and have really deep and blessed insights. Those who need to be healed, feel how the energy is really increasing, and the body is starting to really remember how it should sense life like recently born. And the students are learning how the Shaman is doing this. So, in the tradition, in the house of the visions, we have all this things, all together. But nothing is possible if we don’t pay attention to the previous remarks. Everything is explained just by the sensation. And the wisest man is the one who has found the last -the clearest- union with his spirit, the last sensation, and is caring for it. This is the wisest man: the one who left behind the clouds of confusion of the extremes, of the rational mind memories, the self recognition, and can sing like the Tucan on a tree, or the acuatic Tiger in the river, the Anaconda soaked in the swamp. That’s why in our rituals we dedicate the whole night just only to adore Arutam, and go deeply in the crystal of existence, and cry singing his blessings, sparkling the light of deep visions.

Fourth discussion

Q. Might I ask you something? It’s my second time, and I still vomit too much, not being able to go deep enough within me.

Ruymán. I see that, during the ceremony, that you take the medicine and then you go inside your blanquets quickly, and you don’t want to know about anything. I think there’s a part of you that is somehow trying to come back to your same self constantly, isolating you from the world, and then closing yourself. When the process start going deeply, the cold arrives, the forgotten sacred touch caresses your heart depths,close to your conscious or present sensation, you reject it quickly. You throw it out. That’s my impression about you.

Q. Yes, I think something’s coming, but I stop it somehow.

Ruymán: so you want to change this?

Q. Yes, everything. Everything.

Ruymán. So I’ll help you to deal with this. So don’t drink without me. I will give you the Natem. I will make an enchantment for you. But, please: make the effort. Don’t throw up quickly. And this time try to be more with us, Ok? Look at me. Sometimes I will be laid down, and sometimes I will be sitting with all of you, crying the Arutam's joy. Sometimes I will be meditating. Try to be more active. Don’t enter in your little world and hide under the blankets.

Asking for advice in shamanism: Relevant questions on traditional ayahuasca ceremony to Arutam Ruymán

Question: In the first week that I was with you, I had very intense visions. They were good, but brief visions. Many things were revealed to me. However, in these last ceremonies, my visions are no longer so intense as they were before. My question is this: is it really important to have visions? Is it possible to achieve the healing effect required without having any vision? Maybe the Great Spirit is angry with me, and that’s why I have no more visions. In the first ceremony my visions were in color, while in the latter, the visions were black and white or gray.     You vomited last night?     Yes, I usually vomit.     After drinking, how long did it take to vomit?     It took me two hours, approximately.     Did you drink again yesterday? Remember how long it took you to vomit? About two hours?     Yes.     And did you drink again later?     Yes.     How long did it take you to vomit again?     Half an hour.     Ruymán: The Natem that you took yesterday was extremely powerful. No human being could remain immune to that dose. If you took 60 milliliters distributed in doses of soup spoons, there is no human being who does not experience visions. The first time, I took a whole glass, and had a few visions, at first, but then the effect dissipated. And I did not throw up. If I had vomited, I would have felt nothing. That means that you must be quite sensitive, because you had visions. Then I went back to drinking, and the effect lasted just a little, but I didn’t have many visions. It’s just a strange feeling of enchantment with nature and the jungle. And I didn’t throw up. Then I took a drink again -for the third time- and I had almost the whole glass. And that was too much for me. That is to say: at first I didn’t feel anything, and for that same reason I couldn’t work very well. The second time I was able to work a little better, but that sensation didn’t last long. And the third time I said, well: now I drink the whole glass. And that amount really knocked me out. And then I only could work with my body lying down. That situation, added to the fatigue of the trip and the lack of food, was too much for me. That effect stopped two or three hours later. It was a very intense effect. There I had many visions. It was incredible. Truly amazing. But, of course, that's good when you're not the Shaman, when you can stay in bed all night. Then, sadly, I could not sing for two long hours, due to the intensity of the effect, and I could only remain in a trance with my body lying down. I took some water and then I vomited. But since I’d spent so many hours with the Natem inside me, there were so much had been absorbed in my body, that even though I could vomit, that didn’t change the panorama too much. But well, at least I could play the "Tumank". From that moment on, I was present all night. But no, I did not dare to play the violin. I think if that night I’ve had played the violin, we would have had a real orchestra of vomiting (laughs).  I think you have no problem at all. You have to keep up. Keep taking the medicine and find your own rhythm. All I can say is that I have seen in you a very positive evolution. You must keep a strong energy, and that is achieved by taking care of ejaculation - in men – and also by taking care of the balance of work when resting. Directing our life towards those activities that make us happy, that make sense for our hearts, that we can put our hearts in them. And first of all it’s very important to have the perfect palate. As if we carried forward a diet within nature. That is to say: we must get used to the sweet mixed with the water, that is, the fruits. We must say no to fats mixed with sweet. And we must reduce the flour as much as possible; in any case, we should eat very little or nothing of cereals, especially seeds: quinoa, buckwheat. It’s better to choose the tubers, vegetables, and a little more fish than meat. And we must get used to the bitter tastes. For example, black beer (laughs). I mean: the bitter herbs, the infusions, the taste of the plants.  Cocoa is not so good, but if you try it from time to time there is no problem. In the jungle, for example, we eat fruits. And we spit out the seeds. We don’t grind the seeds, and we don’t eat them. They say, among the Shuar, that one of our customs in the jungle is to consider that cocoa is a seed, and that it has some principles related to it – like the bitter taste, for example -. They say that there is a protective function of the seed, so that it can stay alive through all its processes. It may have a slight effect, very similar to that of a poison inside the organism. Cocoa is also a stimulant, an antidepressant, and its seed is usually burnt and toasted. That also hurts the organism. And the body, in addition, usually reacts with some skin rashes, as if trying to expel it from within. I'm not sure how the mechanism works, but chocolate leaves my stomach dirty: that’s my feeling about it. In fact, I maintain a great purity in my diet, to keep my body in a good shape during the ceremony. That's why I realize, more than those who do not have that discipline. Check that for yourselves.     Question: and what about coffee?     Ruymán: The same thing happens with coffee. It’s another seed, and its stimulating effect also produces the effects of a poison in the organism. It’s a pure stimulation effect, such as that of guayusa or yerba mate. The same goes for tea. Yerba Mate does not have a behavior like that of a seed, and its stimulation, obviously, is not toxic in nature. But I confess that I haven’t consumed any coffee for so long, so I couldn’t tell you about this with precision. The coca leaf, on the other hand, has a very healthy effect. It is stimulating, but even in a purer way altogether. In truth, this type of plants and leaves, help us to increase the sacred touch in our being. That is far from being a stimulant that works as an effect of a state of intoxication. For instance, let's see a case: The relaxation. The Natem relaxes me. It is a plant that used to relax the Indians to help them meditate, so that they could find the Arutam. Yes, it relaxes me, but it also awakens all my instincts, it makes me stronger, it increases the Arutam, and the presence of the Great Spirit in me to infinity, until I merge with the mirror of life, with the crystal of life, with the Arutam. In that way, I feel I’m alive in all of my existence, in that ceremony, in the days to come, and, if I can, for the rest of my life. There are people who say "well, I smoke marijuana because it relaxes me too, and I go into a trance". A trance that is a high price to pay. Because in that case our vital energy is lost and we weaken ourselves and we lose our will. The world is becoming gray and a veil is covering us more deeply. For this reason we cannot work hard and firmly, because we’re weak and we begin to obsess with thought, in a neurotic way, and every day the mirror of life -in its crystal-, is further away from us, and much more obscure. And the fear of that fall and that darkness makes us smoke more and more. We are looking for an increasingly expensive pleasure, until we are in a true vicious circle. Because relaxation is not the same, it’s not the same to drink mate than to drink guayusa or coffee. The stimulation is not the same.     QUESTION: For many years I have been part of the ceremonies, and in every ceremony I have learned a lot. Now I realize that many things only manage to be understood thanks to the visions, but now I understand them without needing to have prior visions. But I'm happy to have visions anyway. I do not have calmer visions, but on the plane of sensations, I have visions that bring ways of learning.     Ruymán: she is a quiet person who looks for that: understanding. And that is how it is given to her; That is how ceremonies happen to her.     I agree with what you say, but I want to see visions. I'm ready to see visions.     Ruymán: but I have not seen you taking too much to see visions.     Well, I'm going to try, thanks (laughs).     Ruyman: Well, to go into a trance and to have visions you have to take a good amount and endure nausea for a while, and then the light will go on for just a second. You will have to ask for help, get someone to take you to the bathroom and help you walk.     Well, sometimes I feel I can not even walk. But in such circumstances I do not have visions either.     Ruymán: Today I'm going to make you an enchantment, I'm going to blow your medicine and so I can also establish the right dose for you. You need a push, because the sacred touch circulates weakly inside your being, it is not enough to overflow in the high flash of vision. Although your pulse is weak, it also seems to be disturbed by emotions. According to the dialogue we have had, I can understand that your vegan diet, raw and cold, plus the deep concern you experience, after years living with your family, which apparently have greatly weakened your spleen and, therefore, your vital energy Through the enchantment I will try to increase the sacred touch in you, so that it overflows in health and strength, and in this way it can overflow, through crying, the Arutam of your vision.     QUESTION: Lately, in my visions, I feel as if I have become different animals. I have the feeling of having an animal skin, and some instincts that belong to different animals. I feel that is important, but how can I integrate that into my life?   Ruymán: When you participate in a ceremony with the Natem, it teaches you the Arutam, and shows it to you in only one way, which is none other than the natural path. All of us emanate from a Great Perfection, and we are a ray of light that comes from that infinite, from the perfect state of life. So when you get close to it, inward, by using an entheogen, especially Natem, you can feel those skins that you felt. You can feel like the animals; they also carry the same light. A light that we also carry inside. So every time you see more and more animals, until you can feel that you are many of them at once, and at a certain moment you can feel the trees, the skies, the seas, the rivers, etc. All existence. This is the answer: you have to keep discovering and realizing that beyond your individuality and your ego, there is a whole world to which we belong and which we really are. And as time goes on, as life goes on, that resistance becomes crueler if we do not let it go. And also more dramatic: worse things happen to us. Situations that, as the time goes by, we experience as even worse. And we move away from the world, we move away from that great being that we are all. Do you really like to feel the skin of these animals within you?     I like feeling more in the skin of another animal than in my own skin (laughs).     Ruymán: Well, they are all animals. You too. Keep in mind that if we lose that self, that conglomerate that has formed our self, with all its dark spirits, we will feel that we are dying or going crazy. And it is not like that. Actually, what we discovered is probably much better. When you inhale tobacco, you will understand better. And you will relive all those realizations in your day to day life.     Question: Last month, when I inhaled tobacco, at home, I almost did not feel its effect, maybe because maybe I had too many thoughts.     Ruymán: well, you have to be prepared before inhaling tobacco. You have to arrive in the best possible way to that ceremony, and relax. If you do not get it, you should wait until the night comes: then you inhale it in a good dose and then you go to sleep. But hey, if that happens with Tobacco, it means that there is something that we should correct. We have to loosen the resistance. That's the good thing: if we did not have tobacco, maybe we would still not realize how we really are.     Question: When I use Tobacco I feel close to fainting, and with a little nausea. Is it the effect of Tobacco, or is there something I'm doing wrong?     Ruymán: Well, we must find out what is happening. We should see in what mood you arrive at that moment, how the day has been for you. It would have to be done at different times of the day, but if you already know that you will have that effect, whatever the schedule, then you should do it shortly before going to bed, so you faint in bed (laughs) and you dream deeply listening the whisper of the Spirit. I do not recommend that you do it in the morning, when you have just got up to work.     Question: I really want to thank you. Yesterday I did not drink. I'm going to take it today. But yesterday you said that I was tired, and yet I had a very good experience. that's why I want to thank you: because you could do the best for everyone. And you do it with a lot of affection, as if you always give the best of yourself. And now I'm really looking forward to the night. And I wanted to ask him for advice, just to clear up some doubts.      Question: When I take it for the first time in the day, I have visions and I work well with medicine. But that takes an hour, an hour and a half, at most two hours. Then that effect begins to dissipate, and as I no longer feel it, I begin to think that I can take it again. But when I take it again, I notice that medicine is not as intense anymore, and yet it seems deeper. It seems to have a deeper effect. But that second glass, during the morning, makes me suffer. And in the morning I have to vomit. I feel like I have to throw up. So my question is. Maybe I have to have a glass at midnight, is that okay? Or do I have to drink another glass and vomit in the morning? Because, during the morning, it is really difficult to bear that second dose.     Ruymán: now I propose to take a greater amount from the beginning.     Question: but from the start I took almost a full glass -the small one-. So I have to take a bigger glass?     Ruymán: you must explore, you must learn to explore. And find, little by little, the best quantity. The other solution is that when you drink again-the second time-you try a smaller amount.     Question: I usually drink a little from the second glass. But it does not matter if I take a little or a lot: during the morning I find it difficult, I have nausea, visions, and I have the feeling that the effect never stops. I think the light, the morning, makes me suffer.     Ruymán: then drink a lot in the second glass. Drink a lot, so you can throw up a little before dawn.     Question: and how can we keep ourselves in that good physical condition that you have? What exercises do you practice? Because it’s evident that you are in a very good shape.     Ruymán: well, I think it's a mix. I have a large farm, in Tenerife, with fruit trees. And I usually have to prune them myself, take care of the grass, make wood for the fireplace, etc. So I think that keeps me pretty strong. This weekend, for example, I was cutting trees with an ax, for five hours. That helps me stay well trained.     In my country house I have an apple tree, can you go to cut something? But no, no (laughs).     Every day I practice a very physical yoga, I maintain my concentration and my discipline during my old practices of the Chinese tradition. Finally, I usually swim in the sea, where the waves catch you and they wallow you a lot. Walking in the forest, while reaching optimal places for meditation is also an excellent activity. But the most important thing to be in shape is the diet: to maintain a good level of saturated fats; to obtain energy and satiety from high quality vegetable oils; legumes and fish; pretty raw fruit and vegetables; and to drink plenty of pure water, as well as to drink infusions of appropriate herbs.     QUESTION: It's my second ceremony, and I also want to ask you about the second shot. Today, for instance, during the ceremony, after drinking the first glass, I had a very strong experience and quite complicated, difficult, physically. I was crying.   My vision was very intense, because I learned many things. But a few hours later I could not stand the medicine in my body anymore and I had to vomit. Then I regained my calm and tranquility. I had the feeling of being calm, of being relieved of something. I was in harmony. And just at that moment they offered me the second glass. And I felt like taking more, because I no longer had visions, but I was in such a peaceful state, that I did not have any energy either, and I did not have the strength to get up and drink another glass. My question is: was it necessary for me to go and have another glass and keep working? Or maybe that peace, that tranquility, was part of the work, of the ceremony?     Ruymán: it's fine. You drank and then you went through your own shadow. You understood a lot, and medicine reached the roots of that darkness. When you touched and detached the roots that were clinging to you and making you suffer, you were able to free yourself from the inside out, through the vomit. And then you felt the healing, you felt the peace, the calm, and you felt maybe like a child: in peace. Possibly you felt how you felt before having experienced that problem, before you had been under the weight of that shadow. And well: the healing took place. Possibly it's been a long time since you felt that way. I do not see then what could be the reason to take any more. You did your job Today is a new day and we start from another place. Cheer up!

Question: In the first week that I was with you, I had very intense visions. They were good, but brief visions. Many things were revealed to me. However, in these last ceremonies, my visions are no longer so intense as they were before. My question is this: is it really important to have visions? Is it possible to achieve the healing effect required without having any vision? Maybe the Great Spirit is angry with me, and that’s why I have no more visions. In the first ceremony my visions were in color, while in the latter, the visions were black and white or gray.

You vomited last night?

Yes, I usually vomit.

After drinking, how long did it take to vomit?

It took me two hours, approximately.

Did you drink again yesterday? Remember how long it took you to vomit? About two hours?

Yes.

And did you drink again later?

Yes.

How long did it take you to vomit again?

Half an hour.

Ruymán: The Natem that you took yesterday was extremely powerful. No human being could remain immune to that dose. If you took 60 milliliters distributed in doses of soup spoons, there is no human being who does not experience visions. The first time, I took a whole glass, and had a few visions, at first, but then the effect dissipated. And I did not throw up. If I had vomited, I would have felt nothing. That means that you must be quite sensitive, because you had visions. Then I went back to drinking, and the effect lasted just a little, but I didn’t have many visions. It’s just a strange feeling of enchantment with nature and the jungle. And I didn’t throw up. Then I took a drink again -for the third time- and I had almost the whole glass. And that was too much for me. That is to say: at first I didn’t feel anything, and for that same reason I couldn’t work very well. The second time I was able to work a little better, but that sensation didn’t last long. And the third time I said, well: now I drink the whole glass. And that amount really knocked me out. And then I only could work with my body lying down. That situation, added to the fatigue of the trip and the lack of food, was too much for me. That effect stopped two or three hours later. It was a very intense effect. There I had many visions. It was incredible. Truly amazing. But, of course, that's good when you're not the Shaman, when you can stay in bed all night. Then, sadly, I could not sing for two long hours, due to the intensity of the effect, and I could only remain in a trance with my body lying down. I took some water and then I vomited. But since I’d spent so many hours with the Natem inside me, there were so much had been absorbed in my body, that even though I could vomit, that didn’t change the panorama too much. But well, at least I could play the "Tumank". From that moment on, I was present all night. But no, I did not dare to play the violin. I think if that night I’ve had played the violin, we would have had a real orchestra of vomiting (laughs).

I think you have no problem at all. You have to keep up. Keep taking the medicine and find your own rhythm. All I can say is that I have seen in you a very positive evolution. You must keep a strong energy, and that is achieved by taking care of ejaculation - in men – and also by taking care of the balance of work when resting. Directing our life towards those activities that make us happy, that make sense for our hearts, that we can put our hearts in them. And first of all it’s very important to have the perfect palate. As if we carried forward a diet within nature. That is to say: we must get used to the sweet mixed with the water, that is, the fruits. We must say no to fats mixed with sweet. And we must reduce the flour as much as possible; in any case, we should eat very little or nothing of cereals, especially seeds: quinoa, buckwheat. It’s better to choose the tubers, vegetables, and a little more fish than meat. And we must get used to the bitter tastes. For example, black beer (laughs). I mean: the bitter herbs, the infusions, the taste of the plants.

Cocoa is not so good, but if you try it from time to time there is no problem. In the jungle, for example, we eat fruits. And we spit out the seeds. We don’t grind the seeds, and we don’t eat them. They say, among the Shuar, that one of our customs in the jungle is to consider that cocoa is a seed, and that it has some principles related to it – like the bitter taste, for example -. They say that there is a protective function of the seed, so that it can stay alive through all its processes. It may have a slight effect, very similar to that of a poison inside the organism. Cocoa is also a stimulant, an antidepressant, and its seed is usually burnt and toasted. That also hurts the organism. And the body, in addition, usually reacts with some skin rashes, as if trying to expel it from within. I'm not sure how the mechanism works, but chocolate leaves my stomach dirty: that’s my feeling about it. In fact, I maintain a great purity in my diet, to keep my body in a good shape during the ceremony. That's why I realize, more than those who do not have that discipline. Check that for yourselves.

Question: and what about coffee?

Ruymán: The same thing happens with coffee. It’s another seed, and its stimulating effect also produces the effects of a poison in the organism. It’s a pure stimulation effect, such as that of guayusa or yerba mate. The same goes for tea. Yerba Mate does not have a behavior like that of a seed, and its stimulation, obviously, is not toxic in nature. But I confess that I haven’t consumed any coffee for so long, so I couldn’t tell you about this with precision. The coca leaf, on the other hand, has a very healthy effect. It is stimulating, but even in a purer way altogether. In truth, this type of plants and leaves, help us to increase the sacred touch in our being. That is far from being a stimulant that works as an effect of a state of intoxication. For instance, let's see a case: The relaxation. The Natem relaxes me. It is a plant that used to relax the Indians to help them meditate, so that they could find the Arutam. Yes, it relaxes me, but it also awakens all my instincts, it makes me stronger, it increases the Arutam, and the presence of the Great Spirit in me to infinity, until I merge with the mirror of life, with the crystal of life, with the Arutam. In that way, I feel I’m alive in all of my existence, in that ceremony, in the days to come, and, if I can, for the rest of my life. There are people who say "well, I smoke marijuana because it relaxes me too, and I go into a trance". A trance that is a high price to pay. Because in that case our vital energy is lost and we weaken ourselves and we lose our will. The world is becoming gray and a veil is covering us more deeply. For this reason we cannot work hard and firmly, because we’re weak and we begin to obsess with thought, in a neurotic way, and every day the mirror of life -in its crystal-, is further away from us, and much more obscure. And the fear of that fall and that darkness makes us smoke more and more. We are looking for an increasingly expensive pleasure, until we are in a true vicious circle. Because relaxation is not the same, it’s not the same to drink mate than to drink guayusa or coffee. The stimulation is not the same.

QUESTION: For many years I have been part of the ceremonies, and in every ceremony I have learned a lot. Now I realize that many things only manage to be understood thanks to the visions, but now I understand them without needing to have prior visions. But I'm happy to have visions anyway. I do not have calmer visions, but on the plane of sensations, I have visions that bring ways of learning.

Ruymán: she is a quiet person who looks for that: understanding. And that is how it is given to her; That is how ceremonies happen to her.

I agree with what you say, but I want to see visions. I'm ready to see visions.

Ruymán: but I have not seen you taking too much to see visions.

Well, I'm going to try, thanks (laughs).

Ruyman: Well, to go into a trance and to have visions you have to take a good amount and endure nausea for a while, and then the light will go on for just a second. You will have to ask for help, get someone to take you to the bathroom and help you walk.

Well, sometimes I feel I can not even walk. But in such circumstances I do not have visions either.

Ruymán: Today I'm going to make you an enchantment, I'm going to blow your medicine and so I can also establish the right dose for you. You need a push, because the sacred touch circulates weakly inside your being, it is not enough to overflow in the high flash of vision. Although your pulse is weak, it also seems to be disturbed by emotions. According to the dialogue we have had, I can understand that your vegan diet, raw and cold, plus the deep concern you experience, after years living with your family, which apparently have greatly weakened your spleen and, therefore, your vital energy Through the enchantment I will try to increase the sacred touch in you, so that it overflows in health and strength, and in this way it can overflow, through crying, the Arutam of your vision.

QUESTION: Lately, in my visions, I feel as if I have become different animals. I have the feeling of having an animal skin, and some instincts that belong to different animals. I feel that is important, but how can I integrate that into my life?

Ruymán: When you participate in a ceremony with the Natem, it teaches you the Arutam, and shows it to you in only one way, which is none other than the natural path. All of us emanate from a Great Perfection, and we are a ray of light that comes from that infinite, from the perfect state of life. So when you get close to it, inward, by using an entheogen, especially Natem, you can feel those skins that you felt. You can feel like the animals; they also carry the same light. A light that we also carry inside. So every time you see more and more animals, until you can feel that you are many of them at once, and at a certain moment you can feel the trees, the skies, the seas, the rivers, etc. All existence. This is the answer: you have to keep discovering and realizing that beyond your individuality and your ego, there is a whole world to which we belong and which we really are. And as time goes on, as life goes on, that resistance becomes crueler if we do not let it go. And also more dramatic: worse things happen to us. Situations that, as the time goes by, we experience as even worse. And we move away from the world, we move away from that great being that we are all. Do you really like to feel the skin of these animals within you?

I like feeling more in the skin of another animal than in my own skin (laughs).

Ruymán: Well, they are all animals. You too. Keep in mind that if we lose that self, that conglomerate that has formed our self, with all its dark spirits, we will feel that we are dying or going crazy. And it is not like that. Actually, what we discovered is probably much better. When you inhale tobacco, you will understand better. And you will relive all those realizations in your day to day life.

Question: Last month, when I inhaled tobacco, at home, I almost did not feel its effect, maybe because maybe I had too many thoughts.

Ruymán: well, you have to be prepared before inhaling tobacco. You have to arrive in the best possible way to that ceremony, and relax. If you do not get it, you should wait until the night comes: then you inhale it in a good dose and then you go to sleep. But hey, if that happens with Tobacco, it means that there is something that we should correct. We have to loosen the resistance. That's the good thing: if we did not have tobacco, maybe we would still not realize how we really are.

Question: When I use Tobacco I feel close to fainting, and with a little nausea. Is it the effect of Tobacco, or is there something I'm doing wrong?

Ruymán: Well, we must find out what is happening. We should see in what mood you arrive at that moment, how the day has been for you. It would have to be done at different times of the day, but if you already know that you will have that effect, whatever the schedule, then you should do it shortly before going to bed, so you faint in bed (laughs) and you dream deeply listening the whisper of the Spirit. I do not recommend that you do it in the morning, when you have just got up to work.

Question: I really want to thank you. Yesterday I did not drink. I'm going to take it today. But yesterday you said that I was tired, and yet I had a very good experience. that's why I want to thank you: because you could do the best for everyone. And you do it with a lot of affection, as if you always give the best of yourself. And now I'm really looking forward to the night. And I wanted to ask him for advice, just to clear up some doubts.

Question: When I take it for the first time in the day, I have visions and I work well with medicine. But that takes an hour, an hour and a half, at most two hours. Then that effect begins to dissipate, and as I no longer feel it, I begin to think that I can take it again. But when I take it again, I notice that medicine is not as intense anymore, and yet it seems deeper. It seems to have a deeper effect. But that second glass, during the morning, makes me suffer. And in the morning I have to vomit. I feel like I have to throw up. So my question is. Maybe I have to have a glass at midnight, is that okay? Or do I have to drink another glass and vomit in the morning? Because, during the morning, it is really difficult to bear that second dose.

Ruymán: now I propose to take a greater amount from the beginning.

Question: but from the start I took almost a full glass -the small one-. So I have to take a bigger glass?

Ruymán: you must explore, you must learn to explore. And find, little by little, the best quantity. The other solution is that when you drink again-the second time-you try a smaller amount.

Question: I usually drink a little from the second glass. But it does not matter if I take a little or a lot: during the morning I find it difficult, I have nausea, visions, and I have the feeling that the effect never stops. I think the light, the morning, makes me suffer.

Ruymán: then drink a lot in the second glass. Drink a lot, so you can throw up a little before dawn.

Question: and how can we keep ourselves in that good physical condition that you have? What exercises do you practice? Because it’s evident that you are in a very good shape.

Ruymán: well, I think it's a mix. I have a large farm, in Tenerife, with fruit trees. And I usually have to prune them myself, take care of the grass, make wood for the fireplace, etc. So I think that keeps me pretty strong. This weekend, for example, I was cutting trees with an ax, for five hours. That helps me stay well trained.

In my country house I have an apple tree, can you go to cut something? But no, no (laughs).

Every day I practice a very physical yoga, I maintain my concentration and my discipline during my old practices of the Chinese tradition. Finally, I usually swim in the sea, where the waves catch you and they wallow you a lot. Walking in the forest, while reaching optimal places for meditation is also an excellent activity. But the most important thing to be in shape is the diet: to maintain a good level of saturated fats; to obtain energy and satiety from high quality vegetable oils; legumes and fish; pretty raw fruit and vegetables; and to drink plenty of pure water, as well as to drink infusions of appropriate herbs.

QUESTION: It's my second ceremony, and I also want to ask you about the second shot. Today, for instance, during the ceremony, after drinking the first glass, I had a very strong experience and quite complicated, difficult, physically. I was crying. My vision was very intense, because I learned many things. But a few hours later I could not stand the medicine in my body anymore and I had to vomit. Then I regained my calm and tranquility. I had the feeling of being calm, of being relieved of something. I was in harmony. And just at that moment they offered me the second glass. And I felt like taking more, because I no longer had visions, but I was in such a peaceful state, that I did not have any energy either, and I did not have the strength to get up and drink another glass. My question is: was it necessary for me to go and have another glass and keep working? Or maybe that peace, that tranquility, was part of the work, of the ceremony?

Ruymán: it's fine. You drank and then you went through your own shadow. You understood a lot, and medicine reached the roots of that darkness. When you touched and detached the roots that were clinging to you and making you suffer, you were able to free yourself from the inside out, through the vomit. And then you felt the healing, you felt the peace, the calm, and you felt maybe like a child: in peace. Possibly you felt how you felt before having experienced that problem, before you had been under the weight of that shadow. And well: the healing took place. Possibly it's been a long time since you felt that way. I do not see then what could be the reason to take any more. You did your job Today is a new day and we start from another place. Cheer up!

Some relevant questions to Arutam Ruymán after ceremony. June 30th of 2018. Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Spain.

Some relevant questions to Arutam Ruymán after ceremony. June 30th of 2018, Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Spain.    A QUESTION ON INTERPRETATION: Last night I had many visions, and I think I understood the meaning of my dreams. But in the last one I didn’t understand very well. In my dream I was on a shore...    RUYMÁN: in a river or at sea?    QUESTION: On the seashore. There were two very beautiful men; They were calling me. Then I saw four men -also very beautiful- on a boat. They called me. I was walking, and they asked me to get on the ship. Everything was fine, until I began to wonder what that vision meant: at that precise moment, the vision vanished.    RUYMÁN: Well, so you started wrong. You tried to reason, you used the perspective (the space-time lock) of that monster who looks back and responds to your name. That's why you lost the vision. The magical chance, when Arutam whispers to you through the instincts, faded away. You have to learn to prevent that from happening again. This is how we block everything that our spirit uses to clarify, indicate and guide us throughout life. Even in our dreams. We coerce everything with the mind, with the resistance of our self, with control.    QUESTION: how can we prevent the mind from interrupting those visions? How can we keep the mind at bay, how can we stop using it and even stop thinking?    RUYMÁN: we cannot achieve that at the precise moment of having those visions. That work must already be done in daily life, on a daily basis, before arriving at the ceremony. But basically it's fine. You were devoted to the vision, you were part of the event and suddenly you returned to the habit of seeking an understanding - and controlling - from a sick point of view: that of the shadow of resistance, of that entity called the self. That is to say: you know how to do it. You were doing it, the problem is that you interrupted it. But naturally you know how to do it. And so it is: we are born from the Great Spirit. We are born from that intelligence which allows us, simply, to exist. We can do without a controlling mind, which is calculating and organizing everything. There is no need to ask questions or have answers that explain the vague perceptions of our gaze, alien to the world and to the union with our feelings. We were born of that intelligence. Both the body and its organs can flow in the perfect harmony of that intelligence. You were flowing. You were captivated with the sacred enchantment, and you were heading towards a vision, you were heading towards a feeling. You were letting freedom to be drawn, with the strokes of light from Tabaco, and some unique touches from Arutam. The thing is that you remembered your identity, you felt that you were forgetting about it, and this time it hit you hard, and that monster came back. Logically you lost the vision. But now I ask you: what did you like most? To flow in the miracle through which Arutam draws his art and speaks to us, or to be interrupted by your mind, that once again clouded your vision and lost everything? This is how you learn in shamanism! Through feeling. Through mistakes. Mistakes that you have to commit again and again until you say: Enough! I'm fed up! Please! I don’t want it anymore! How many times will the same thing happen to me? And then we ask ourselves: How many times in our lives do we make a mistake after another, and we get sick, and say "enough is enough, I cannot continue like this"? Many times, when we make a mistake, we must follow that trend until it becomes a total failure. That is when we realize that it was a mistake. The only thing your inner Spirit can do is to be like a mirror. And reflect what you’re doing with that inner self, with that monster. And yes: it’s the most painful way to learn. But we were the ones who chose that painful path: from the moment we separated from Arutam. And you must have a lot of courage to see it. You have to stand up and really feel in yourself what you’re doing, and make the decision to do it differently. To go towards the Spirit. Towards Arutam. So rejoice. Be glad about that experience, and about all the necessary ones, so that you feel disgusted and you feel sick about the whole issue. And say a good time: out! We have to do it in another way!    QUESTION: yesterday I had a major headache. And when I set course for the ceremony I thought maybe I didn’t have to take medicine. One or two minutes after taking it, I vomited. I took it, again, and the experience was very hard...    Ruymán: before continuing I want to say that headaches, most of the time, are caused by an excess of tension, which occurs because the resistance of the "self", symbolized by the liver, tenses too much. It causes a stiff neck, and then increases the pain in the sides of the head and in the vertex. With much thought, it would also affect the forehead. We cannot attribute this pain to Natem, but rather that you must slow down a little. For instance, if you are already in that state, avoid mate for a couple of days, until you calm down. And take not very stimulating infusions, but rather relaxing ones, until the pain stops. The best medicinal remedies would be: the white peony root, the cat's claw, the oyster shell and valerian. It's only after this that you can go back to Ayahuasca (you should be very careful with San Pedro). If you are in an excess, if you are facing an overflowed tension, that is to say that the resistance of the self is tightening too much, the monster is biting, the head is hurting, because all that fire is up - the fire tends to go up, like heat- and burn. You take the Natem and everything goes up and at some point it comes out through your mouth. Like a bomb that causes tensions to explode everywhere. But I ask you a question: When you threw up forcefully and then you calmed down: Did you notice any relief? Because that swelling -that excess of tension-, must have gone out to calm you down. And you could calm down to take it again. I would’ve done this and wait at least an hour, to calm down a bit more, and I would have used tobacco -which is very hypotensive, very calming- to balance myself a little more in the sacred touch, so I can take Natem just an hour later, not so immediately, just to relieve anxiety. Surely the Natem was still a bit strong when you took it, because you didn’t carry out this recommendation. And surely it was a bit violent for you. But, to be more precise, we have to emphasize that Natem is not violent at all. Natem is Natem: it’s neither violent nor relaxing. What Natem does is to show you that inner resistance, which was still a bit high. And you didn’t like to see what you were carrying with yourself, and feeding up, so often. You didn’t like Robert. What was that thing you saw, for which you were not ready?    QUESTION: I saw important moments of my life. And a lot of what I still cannot accept inside me. And also came the memories of people who had a difficult time during the ceremony.    Ruymán: Yesterday I talked a lot about pain. And how big is the pain that we can bear and carry with us. That pain is stopped, in a space-time block, in a person who believes it’s real, and stores it, and carries it with him. And sometimes that pain has been hard and true, but it has already been too painful at some time in the past: it cannot be our life sentence. We should let it go. And for it to come out of us, the "Robert" concept has to disappear. The person who carries that pain -who believes that it exists and who closes space and time and, in that tension, moves on, in a kind of direction-, has to dissolve. And that's what Natem tries to achieve, by making it explode. But sometimes we don’t want to, and the Natem leads us to that liberation, but we don’t want to. And it expands in us; it continues to lead us to that liberation with all its luminous or dark enchantments, because that darkness is our shadow, and we don’t want it to be true! There comes a time when we say: My God, this will drive me crazy! Then a dilemma arises: or I take this road, once and for all, or I’ll continue as I am until the day I die. But of course: it's like diving into the void. And you have to love it with all your might, cause otherwise, What point would there be to press with Natem? If there are specific moments of your life, whose resistance and pain makes it difficult for you to let go, you can tell me in private, and we can talk about it. But you have to let go. You have to release that resistance in space and time. There must be no way to return to a memory or pain. Even to remember some trauma should make us say: what a useless effort. I pass! You reach something like a tiredness born out of maturity. Like an old wise man. That is to be a healthy man. There is no right: you were born to life, from the Great Spirit, from Arutam, from that crystal of peace and perfection, from which emanates even the slightest whisper of the smallest cricket, How can you ignore all that to form a dark and resistant structure just to forget everything, and you live in perpetual suffering just to consume that vital force but getting less and less of it, till you finally let yourself die? ! You don’t deserve that, nor does the Great Being who gave you life. The one who is giving it to you now. And he keeps giving it to you. So think about it: if you want to tell me something, tell me and we'll talk so I can help you focus. On the other hand, if we see something very difficult to solve in this search, it is always possible to resort to the enchantments proper to medicine. So that the Spirit can speak to you, through the art of the Natem, to help you to understand and to give you the perspective throughout its enchantments - be they luminous or dark. And Robert: you are our friend, like the rest of our brothers here present. If at some point your head hurts, tell us, if it's not me, Sami or Nunkui will deflate the balloon with a couple of needles (laughs). We put one in the nose, another under the tongue and the third in ... hum. On second thought, maybe we do not need that (laughs). Any other question?    QUESTION: I had the vision of a ship, that the sea pull ashore. Then I felt that I could not sail anymore, and I started thinking about how to save myself. Suddenly the ship fell apart in a thousand pieces. And each part was subdivided into even smaller parts. And then I felt that from the remains of that ship, some leaves were beginning to grow. There were leaves of grass: life seemed to start again. And I felt that life had found another way to grow, another way to follow its course. And I felt that this was another way to save that ship from destruction.    Ruymán: in what you say there are several connotations that can help us explain this vision. Let's see a couple of them, although I think you got it pretty good. That vision made the right impact. In fact, the vision is impressive: very good. I am impressed by the relationship between the ship and reality, human reality, the affective level, the past, what we were - that human reality, in short -. The ship reaches the coast, brought from the sea, and that is like death and, at the same time, a break from all that human reality, from that human construction. I'm also impressed by how, from the past, we arrived at this present where that human reality completely undid it, in each of its cells and atoms, and from the old structure, it returned to the very nucleus of each cell, and from the most deep of itself, could find life again. And life could sprout again, from its old condition, which had already reached the shore. It could sprout again. It impresses me how that old ship, which reached the shore, could be undone by the Natem, just to find the source of life in that old wood, so that a jungle, a forest, would sprout from there. It is peculiar that in this way life has sprung from something inert. It is a truly wonderful vision. And I, meanwhile, was asking him, Did you really feel the medicine? (laughs) Very good! Thanks for sharing it to us. Any other question?    QUESTION: Well, the truth is that since this morning and throughout the day, after the experience, I felt very well; I was immersed in a very deep feeling of love, happiness and well-being. And let's say that the same feeling of well-being caused me to wonder: this I mentioned to Jordi and Sami today. They gave me their advice and I received it very willingly. And this is what made me ask myself: how far should I take medicine now? Because I really felt that medicine gave me what I needed. I felt quite full and very happy. And I felt that doing it again could trigger something bad or, I do not know. Maybe I did not need more. And I was presented with that doubt and, commenting with them, they told me that many times the injured ego plays tricks on you, makes small tricks to you and makes you find the excuse not to continue.    Ruymán: I can give you my opinion if you want. You had a very good experience. Rest is also an excellent option. That is to say, there is no hurry. You can come next time, and treasure, in the meantime, that feeling that you have found -and that you did not find long ago-, and limit yourself to taking care of it for a while. I really think that is the best option. It's worth it for my experience and for what I felt you can do right now. Because that feeling, as you told us, has not happened for you for a long time. Maybe since your childhood, who knows. Then, as I respect that feeling, I would leave it in that place, and I would take care of it for a couple of months. And then I would revisit the visions. I even see it as something sacred and respectful of you. And I like it: it implies your good heart and your sincerity, which always seemed real to me. Since I met you, in our first talk. You had just done things a little badly. But it's good: we're on an island, at first you do not know, who knows, you were just starting. Now you have been able to meet me, I know this quite well. But hey: it usually starts little by little until you get to another level. You were lucky that those mistakes did not make you pay. A lot of people do. The Spirit has no particular affections, but somehow it wants to teach you a lesson, so that you will not go down that path again. And this time it did not happen. Why? Because it was innocent. It was a sincere wish. And that's why you came here. And it reached deep into your heart: it gave you joy. I think it's very respectable that you also do not feel anxious (and do not let yourself be overcome by the greed of living psychoactive experiences or visions). It seems to me really something like a sample of your good feeling and your nobility towards the honorable Arutam. It seems to me the best thing, really, and for some reason you felt it too. So trust your feelings: you do not have to go around asking people. Trust, because the truth is that your feeling is noble. So, as your path goes, and how you take it, the decision seems right to me. If you stay today, the Natem would flow through you. Maybe here it's not going to find anything. Or maybe you will find the right space in your heart, in your feeling, so that the anaconda can keep raising its head towards the eyes, towards the crown. And in that case you will have a very visionary, a very strong experience. But it's going to hit here very hard, with considerable intensity. Yes, you're probably going to hallucinate, but I don’t want you to be clouded, I don’t want you to forget what you’ve achieved yesterday due to the impact of that force. I’d like you to take yesterday's experience as a treasure, to feed it for a while and take care of it in your heart; then you can go back, from that level, to take that jump again.

Some relevant questions to Arutam Ruymán after ceremony. June 30th of 2018, Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Spain.

A QUESTION ON INTERPRETATION: Last night I had many visions, and I think I understood the meaning of my dreams. But in the last one I didn’t understand very well. In my dream I was on a shore...

RUYMÁN: in a river or at sea?

QUESTION: On the seashore. There were two very beautiful men; They were calling me. Then I saw four men -also very beautiful- on a boat. They called me. I was walking, and they asked me to get on the ship. Everything was fine, until I began to wonder what that vision meant: at that precise moment, the vision vanished.

RUYMÁN: Well, so you started wrong. You tried to reason, you used the perspective (the space-time lock) of that monster who looks back and responds to your name. That's why you lost the vision. The magical chance, when Arutam whispers to you through the instincts, faded away. You have to learn to prevent that from happening again. This is how we block everything that our spirit uses to clarify, indicate and guide us throughout life. Even in our dreams. We coerce everything with the mind, with the resistance of our self, with control.

QUESTION: how can we prevent the mind from interrupting those visions? How can we keep the mind at bay, how can we stop using it and even stop thinking?

RUYMÁN: we cannot achieve that at the precise moment of having those visions. That work must already be done in daily life, on a daily basis, before arriving at the ceremony. But basically it's fine. You were devoted to the vision, you were part of the event and suddenly you returned to the habit of seeking an understanding - and controlling - from a sick point of view: that of the shadow of resistance, of that entity called the self. That is to say: you know how to do it. You were doing it, the problem is that you interrupted it. But naturally you know how to do it. And so it is: we are born from the Great Spirit. We are born from that intelligence which allows us, simply, to exist. We can do without a controlling mind, which is calculating and organizing everything. There is no need to ask questions or have answers that explain the vague perceptions of our gaze, alien to the world and to the union with our feelings. We were born of that intelligence. Both the body and its organs can flow in the perfect harmony of that intelligence. You were flowing. You were captivated with the sacred enchantment, and you were heading towards a vision, you were heading towards a feeling. You were letting freedom to be drawn, with the strokes of light from Tabaco, and some unique touches from Arutam. The thing is that you remembered your identity, you felt that you were forgetting about it, and this time it hit you hard, and that monster came back. Logically you lost the vision. But now I ask you: what did you like most? To flow in the miracle through which Arutam draws his art and speaks to us, or to be interrupted by your mind, that once again clouded your vision and lost everything? This is how you learn in shamanism! Through feeling. Through mistakes. Mistakes that you have to commit again and again until you say: Enough! I'm fed up! Please! I don’t want it anymore! How many times will the same thing happen to me? And then we ask ourselves: How many times in our lives do we make a mistake after another, and we get sick, and say "enough is enough, I cannot continue like this"? Many times, when we make a mistake, we must follow that trend until it becomes a total failure. That is when we realize that it was a mistake. The only thing your inner Spirit can do is to be like a mirror. And reflect what you’re doing with that inner self, with that monster. And yes: it’s the most painful way to learn. But we were the ones who chose that painful path: from the moment we separated from Arutam. And you must have a lot of courage to see it. You have to stand up and really feel in yourself what you’re doing, and make the decision to do it differently. To go towards the Spirit. Towards Arutam. So rejoice. Be glad about that experience, and about all the necessary ones, so that you feel disgusted and you feel sick about the whole issue. And say a good time: out! We have to do it in another way!

QUESTION: yesterday I had a major headache. And when I set course for the ceremony I thought maybe I didn’t have to take medicine. One or two minutes after taking it, I vomited. I took it, again, and the experience was very hard...

Ruymán: before continuing I want to say that headaches, most of the time, are caused by an excess of tension, which occurs because the resistance of the "self", symbolized by the liver, tenses too much. It causes a stiff neck, and then increases the pain in the sides of the head and in the vertex. With much thought, it would also affect the forehead. We cannot attribute this pain to Natem, but rather that you must slow down a little. For instance, if you are already in that state, avoid mate for a couple of days, until you calm down. And take not very stimulating infusions, but rather relaxing ones, until the pain stops. The best medicinal remedies would be: the white peony root, the cat's claw, the oyster shell and valerian. It's only after this that you can go back to Ayahuasca (you should be very careful with San Pedro). If you are in an excess, if you are facing an overflowed tension, that is to say that the resistance of the self is tightening too much, the monster is biting, the head is hurting, because all that fire is up - the fire tends to go up, like heat- and burn. You take the Natem and everything goes up and at some point it comes out through your mouth. Like a bomb that causes tensions to explode everywhere. But I ask you a question: When you threw up forcefully and then you calmed down: Did you notice any relief? Because that swelling -that excess of tension-, must have gone out to calm you down. And you could calm down to take it again. I would’ve done this and wait at least an hour, to calm down a bit more, and I would have used tobacco -which is very hypotensive, very calming- to balance myself a little more in the sacred touch, so I can take Natem just an hour later, not so immediately, just to relieve anxiety. Surely the Natem was still a bit strong when you took it, because you didn’t carry out this recommendation. And surely it was a bit violent for you. But, to be more precise, we have to emphasize that Natem is not violent at all. Natem is Natem: it’s neither violent nor relaxing. What Natem does is to show you that inner resistance, which was still a bit high. And you didn’t like to see what you were carrying with yourself, and feeding up, so often. You didn’t like Robert. What was that thing you saw, for which you were not ready?

QUESTION: I saw important moments of my life. And a lot of what I still cannot accept inside me. And also came the memories of people who had a difficult time during the ceremony.

Ruymán: Yesterday I talked a lot about pain. And how big is the pain that we can bear and carry with us. That pain is stopped, in a space-time block, in a person who believes it’s real, and stores it, and carries it with him. And sometimes that pain has been hard and true, but it has already been too painful at some time in the past: it cannot be our life sentence. We should let it go. And for it to come out of us, the "Robert" concept has to disappear. The person who carries that pain -who believes that it exists and who closes space and time and, in that tension, moves on, in a kind of direction-, has to dissolve. And that's what Natem tries to achieve, by making it explode. But sometimes we don’t want to, and the Natem leads us to that liberation, but we don’t want to. And it expands in us; it continues to lead us to that liberation with all its luminous or dark enchantments, because that darkness is our shadow, and we don’t want it to be true! There comes a time when we say: My God, this will drive me crazy! Then a dilemma arises: or I take this road, once and for all, or I’ll continue as I am until the day I die. But of course: it's like diving into the void. And you have to love it with all your might, cause otherwise, What point would there be to press with Natem? If there are specific moments of your life, whose resistance and pain makes it difficult for you to let go, you can tell me in private, and we can talk about it. But you have to let go. You have to release that resistance in space and time. There must be no way to return to a memory or pain. Even to remember some trauma should make us say: what a useless effort. I pass! You reach something like a tiredness born out of maturity. Like an old wise man. That is to be a healthy man. There is no right: you were born to life, from the Great Spirit, from Arutam, from that crystal of peace and perfection, from which emanates even the slightest whisper of the smallest cricket, How can you ignore all that to form a dark and resistant structure just to forget everything, and you live in perpetual suffering just to consume that vital force but getting less and less of it, till you finally let yourself die? ! You don’t deserve that, nor does the Great Being who gave you life. The one who is giving it to you now. And he keeps giving it to you. So think about it: if you want to tell me something, tell me and we'll talk so I can help you focus. On the other hand, if we see something very difficult to solve in this search, it is always possible to resort to the enchantments proper to medicine. So that the Spirit can speak to you, through the art of the Natem, to help you to understand and to give you the perspective throughout its enchantments - be they luminous or dark. And Robert: you are our friend, like the rest of our brothers here present. If at some point your head hurts, tell us, if it's not me, Sami or Nunkui will deflate the balloon with a couple of needles (laughs). We put one in the nose, another under the tongue and the third in ... hum. On second thought, maybe we do not need that (laughs). Any other question?

QUESTION: I had the vision of a ship, that the sea pull ashore. Then I felt that I could not sail anymore, and I started thinking about how to save myself. Suddenly the ship fell apart in a thousand pieces. And each part was subdivided into even smaller parts. And then I felt that from the remains of that ship, some leaves were beginning to grow. There were leaves of grass: life seemed to start again. And I felt that life had found another way to grow, another way to follow its course. And I felt that this was another way to save that ship from destruction.

Ruymán: in what you say there are several connotations that can help us explain this vision. Let's see a couple of them, although I think you got it pretty good. That vision made the right impact. In fact, the vision is impressive: very good. I am impressed by the relationship between the ship and reality, human reality, the affective level, the past, what we were - that human reality, in short -. The ship reaches the coast, brought from the sea, and that is like death and, at the same time, a break from all that human reality, from that human construction. I'm also impressed by how, from the past, we arrived at this present where that human reality completely undid it, in each of its cells and atoms, and from the old structure, it returned to the very nucleus of each cell, and from the most deep of itself, could find life again. And life could sprout again, from its old condition, which had already reached the shore. It could sprout again. It impresses me how that old ship, which reached the shore, could be undone by the Natem, just to find the source of life in that old wood, so that a jungle, a forest, would sprout from there. It is peculiar that in this way life has sprung from something inert. It is a truly wonderful vision. And I, meanwhile, was asking him, Did you really feel the medicine? (laughs) Very good! Thanks for sharing it to us. Any other question?

QUESTION: Well, the truth is that since this morning and throughout the day, after the experience, I felt very well; I was immersed in a very deep feeling of love, happiness and well-being. And let's say that the same feeling of well-being caused me to wonder: this I mentioned to Jordi and Sami today. They gave me their advice and I received it very willingly. And this is what made me ask myself: how far should I take medicine now? Because I really felt that medicine gave me what I needed. I felt quite full and very happy. And I felt that doing it again could trigger something bad or, I do not know. Maybe I did not need more. And I was presented with that doubt and, commenting with them, they told me that many times the injured ego plays tricks on you, makes small tricks to you and makes you find the excuse not to continue.

Ruymán: I can give you my opinion if you want. You had a very good experience. Rest is also an excellent option. That is to say, there is no hurry. You can come next time, and treasure, in the meantime, that feeling that you have found -and that you did not find long ago-, and limit yourself to taking care of it for a while. I really think that is the best option. It's worth it for my experience and for what I felt you can do right now. Because that feeling, as you told us, has not happened for you for a long time. Maybe since your childhood, who knows. Then, as I respect that feeling, I would leave it in that place, and I would take care of it for a couple of months. And then I would revisit the visions. I even see it as something sacred and respectful of you. And I like it: it implies your good heart and your sincerity, which always seemed real to me. Since I met you, in our first talk. You had just done things a little badly. But it's good: we're on an island, at first you do not know, who knows, you were just starting. Now you have been able to meet me, I know this quite well. But hey: it usually starts little by little until you get to another level. You were lucky that those mistakes did not make you pay. A lot of people do. The Spirit has no particular affections, but somehow it wants to teach you a lesson, so that you will not go down that path again. And this time it did not happen. Why? Because it was innocent. It was a sincere wish. And that's why you came here. And it reached deep into your heart: it gave you joy. I think it's very respectable that you also do not feel anxious (and do not let yourself be overcome by the greed of living psychoactive experiences or visions). It seems to me really something like a sample of your good feeling and your nobility towards the honorable Arutam. It seems to me the best thing, really, and for some reason you felt it too. So trust your feelings: you do not have to go around asking people. Trust, because the truth is that your feeling is noble. So, as your path goes, and how you take it, the decision seems right to me. If you stay today, the Natem would flow through you. Maybe here it's not going to find anything. Or maybe you will find the right space in your heart, in your feeling, so that the anaconda can keep raising its head towards the eyes, towards the crown. And in that case you will have a very visionary, a very strong experience. But it's going to hit here very hard, with considerable intensity. Yes, you're probably going to hallucinate, but I don’t want you to be clouded, I don’t want you to forget what you’ve achieved yesterday due to the impact of that force. I’d like you to take yesterday's experience as a treasure, to feed it for a while and take care of it in your heart; then you can go back, from that level, to take that jump again.

Talk with Arutam Ruymán in El Tanque, Santa Cruz de Tenerife, June 30th, 2018

A QUESTION ABOUT THE LESSONS LEARNED THROUGHOUT THE WAY: Does Natem take us into our darkness?  RUYMÁN: I wouldn’t say that Natem leads us into our darkness: I’d rather say that Natem immerses us into the Spirit’s depths, and as we reach the Spirit, we see those dark tendencies, the ones that we feed daily; we can feel their misery and their dark veil. We see them as they are, and how they grows within us. But if we didn’t do that, Natem's trance would be just the sheer radiance of the Spirit: pure light and beauty, just as Life itself.    QUESTION: Well, when Natem shows me those dark parts of myself, I start to feel nauseous. I feel like I need to flee from that darkness, I don’t want to go to that place.  RUYMÁN: H on the contrary: you have to look very curiously, with no fear. When the light comes on, when everything is clear and you can see all the misery that you feed regularly, all the misery that you let it grow inside yourself and let it rot, you really have to look at it with curiosity, and ask yourself: Let's see… What’s that? Why do I have that thing inside me? What part of my mind is so sick that it was able to feed that crap? So you start to investigate and understand, and of course you’ll feel nauseous. And what really happens is that you don’t want to see it. You don’t want that to be discovered. You don’t want it to be seen. The shadow that rots your flesh is so horrifying that you feel a total rejection for it. And many times that happens because you want to free yourself from it, but it can also happen just because you want to stop the intensity of that vision, so you don’t have to go deeper into that. But, nevertheless, you have to look! You have to look at that wision, and arrive to it, and try hard until you can really see it in front of you, and then find an explanation to it: "ah, that's why I do it ... this is what I do". And then you say to yourself: "God, why didn’t I notice it before?" And that's why so many people are afraid to look. Shamanism is not a pleasant way. It’s a true act of healing. It’s a true awakening of consciousness. When you turn on the light, in a room, you often say: "I'd better turn it off." You are before the truth: that’s why this is one of the most arduous jobs that a human being must face in his lifetime. You might get that awakening… or maybe not. Maybe you should assume that you're a coward and that you should run away.  When I was studying at the university, I knew that if I wrote down what was written in the books, I would probably pass the exam. If you study the book that’s been recommended by the teacher, you’ll read it completely and answer the test appropriately. You know that you’ll probably pass the examination. Even if many times you don’t even understand what you are reading. When I was young, as I was learning the path of shamanism, I asked myself: will I learn, one day, what my elders are teaching me? Will I reach that peace, that depth, that union with existence they have? Because I see it today and I’m not so sure about it. I want to achieve that knowledge, but I don’t know if I can! Anyway: I want to get it! But I can’t! Am I wasting my time? Will I die in the same state of mind they had? Fear, uncertainty and the question: what do I do? It’s the torture caused by the self. By encouraging myself to do it, and to look, I’ll probably feel nauseous: because I see those shadows, I see what I have inside me, I see those mistakes I’ve made. But I also feel the strength of wounded pride, and to be compelled to modify those mistakes makes me angry. Then I get defensive and react badly. It’s always the same vortex of self-destruction.  But do you know what? I’ve lived a normal life for many years. I've seen enough the way my elders, and the people around me, threw away their lives. I knew I didn’t want to end up like that. I knew that real happiness was not there. I also knew that if I closed my eyes, I couldn’t feel the peace that I saw in my teachers, because they were healthy and strong, and they knew what they taught. And they knew how to heal their disciples. And then I said to myself: I want this. So with a little bit of will, with a bit of faith - I don’t like that word very much, although sometimes it has a beautiful connotation -, I could see that everything that’d been transmitted from old to young, so many times, in Shuar Shamanism , was true. And that for some good reason this knowledge had survived hundreds or thousands of years. And I could check it personally. I could apply it to myself.    QUESTION ABOUT INTERPRETATION: There were clock hands in my visions, what meaning can that have? As I was navigating the cosmos, I saw a cosmic ship, a spaceship. I was approaching the entrance door of that ship, so I entered through the window –it was very clean-and there I started to see the clock hands, which looked large at first, and then they went smaller. They went from a greater to a lesser size.  RUYMÁN: Let's see. He was in the cosmos, with his solid identity, and he was entering a machine that was made to navigate the cosmos. Then he began to see the mechanics of that rigid machine. Through the crystal of Life he saw the clock that began to dissolve in smaller pieces, showing its mechanical nature, until he reached the engine, the very soul of that machine. As if he was going towards its essence. From something of a bit rigid start, from that ego that travels in a machine through the universe -without the total freedom of light, which shines with its brilliance towards the stars, among all that blackness of space that gives consciousness to the galaxies-, he began to dissolve that machine in its small parts. It was a decomposition process, typical of the Yaji leaves, within the strong intensity of the deep Natem. So, then it was a process of decomposition, until everything disappears, and you get to the parts of the machine.    A QUESTION ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT OF VISIONS: I have attended several ceremonies, and I feel that in my first ceremony I started to see a story, and that story was developed, more and more in detail, in the subsequent ceremonies. For example, in the first ceremony there was a very beautiful puma. In later ceremonies I saw that puma again, with more and more detail. Is it a story which is evolving in parts?  RUYMÁN: no, no. The ceremony is a way to let go in an eternal marriage with Arutam. It's a way to stay melted with the whole existence, without making any effort, in the dark taste of enlightening enchantments of the Ayahuasca. It is a way of knowing when we are wrong in our lives, when we are hurting ourselves. Your mind is still mechanical, linear, ordinary. A mind that enslaves time in its resistance, to conceal, painfully, the reality of its eternity. Maybe you are understanding some things, little by little. Anyway, I see a positive evolution in you. And I think you're going to continue. Better and better all the time. You have to start to make an effort, to let go a little more, and forget about the references. Look from an identity, to find more spaces of ease and light in your life. I'm sure you're going to get it.    QUESTION: I have also had other experiences to which I have been completely delivered. What can that mean?  RUYMÁN: the time will come when experience is a total relationship with existence. As long as the ordinary mind is abandoned and you lose the desire - and the faith in that desire - to keep it alive. One also gets bored, and decides to stay in the light of Life, just to shine indefinitely, like animals in the jungle.    Well, let's rest for a little while. Let's check the tobacco leaves.

A QUESTION ABOUT THE LESSONS LEARNED THROUGHOUT THE WAY: Does Natem take us into our darkness?

RUYMÁN: I wouldn’t say that Natem leads us into our darkness: I’d rather say that Natem immerses us into the Spirit’s depths, and as we reach the Spirit, we see those dark tendencies, the ones that we feed daily; we can feel their misery and their dark veil. We see them as they are, and how they grows within us. But if we didn’t do that, Natem's trance would be just the sheer radiance of the Spirit: pure light and beauty, just as Life itself.

QUESTION: Well, when Natem shows me those dark parts of myself, I start to feel nauseous. I feel like I need to flee from that darkness, I don’t want to go to that place.

RUYMÁN: H on the contrary: you have to look very curiously, with no fear. When the light comes on, when everything is clear and you can see all the misery that you feed regularly, all the misery that you let it grow inside yourself and let it rot, you really have to look at it with curiosity, and ask yourself: Let's see… What’s that? Why do I have that thing inside me? What part of my mind is so sick that it was able to feed that crap? So you start to investigate and understand, and of course you’ll feel nauseous. And what really happens is that you don’t want to see it. You don’t want that to be discovered. You don’t want it to be seen. The shadow that rots your flesh is so horrifying that you feel a total rejection for it. And many times that happens because you want to free yourself from it, but it can also happen just because you want to stop the intensity of that vision, so you don’t have to go deeper into that. But, nevertheless, you have to look! You have to look at that wision, and arrive to it, and try hard until you can really see it in front of you, and then find an explanation to it: "ah, that's why I do it ... this is what I do". And then you say to yourself: "God, why didn’t I notice it before?" And that's why so many people are afraid to look. Shamanism is not a pleasant way. It’s a true act of healing. It’s a true awakening of consciousness. When you turn on the light, in a room, you often say: "I'd better turn it off." You are before the truth: that’s why this is one of the most arduous jobs that a human being must face in his lifetime. You might get that awakening… or maybe not. Maybe you should assume that you're a coward and that you should run away.

When I was studying at the university, I knew that if I wrote down what was written in the books, I would probably pass the exam. If you study the book that’s been recommended by the teacher, you’ll read it completely and answer the test appropriately. You know that you’ll probably pass the examination. Even if many times you don’t even understand what you are reading. When I was young, as I was learning the path of shamanism, I asked myself: will I learn, one day, what my elders are teaching me? Will I reach that peace, that depth, that union with existence they have? Because I see it today and I’m not so sure about it. I want to achieve that knowledge, but I don’t know if I can! Anyway: I want to get it! But I can’t! Am I wasting my time? Will I die in the same state of mind they had? Fear, uncertainty and the question: what do I do? It’s the torture caused by the self. By encouraging myself to do it, and to look, I’ll probably feel nauseous: because I see those shadows, I see what I have inside me, I see those mistakes I’ve made. But I also feel the strength of wounded pride, and to be compelled to modify those mistakes makes me angry. Then I get defensive and react badly. It’s always the same vortex of self-destruction.

But do you know what? I’ve lived a normal life for many years. I've seen enough the way my elders, and the people around me, threw away their lives. I knew I didn’t want to end up like that. I knew that real happiness was not there. I also knew that if I closed my eyes, I couldn’t feel the peace that I saw in my teachers, because they were healthy and strong, and they knew what they taught. And they knew how to heal their disciples. And then I said to myself: I want this. So with a little bit of will, with a bit of faith - I don’t like that word very much, although sometimes it has a beautiful connotation -, I could see that everything that’d been transmitted from old to young, so many times, in Shuar Shamanism , was true. And that for some good reason this knowledge had survived hundreds or thousands of years. And I could check it personally. I could apply it to myself.

QUESTION ABOUT INTERPRETATION: There were clock hands in my visions, what meaning can that have? As I was navigating the cosmos, I saw a cosmic ship, a spaceship. I was approaching the entrance door of that ship, so I entered through the window –it was very clean-and there I started to see the clock hands, which looked large at first, and then they went smaller. They went from a greater to a lesser size.

RUYMÁN: Let's see. He was in the cosmos, with his solid identity, and he was entering a machine that was made to navigate the cosmos. Then he began to see the mechanics of that rigid machine. Through the crystal of Life he saw the clock that began to dissolve in smaller pieces, showing its mechanical nature, until he reached the engine, the very soul of that machine. As if he was going towards its essence. From something of a bit rigid start, from that ego that travels in a machine through the universe -without the total freedom of light, which shines with its brilliance towards the stars, among all that blackness of space that gives consciousness to the galaxies-, he began to dissolve that machine in its small parts. It was a decomposition process, typical of the Yaji leaves, within the strong intensity of the deep Natem. So, then it was a process of decomposition, until everything disappears, and you get to the parts of the machine.

A QUESTION ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT OF VISIONS: I have attended several ceremonies, and I feel that in my first ceremony I started to see a story, and that story was developed, more and more in detail, in the subsequent ceremonies. For example, in the first ceremony there was a very beautiful puma. In later ceremonies I saw that puma again, with more and more detail. Is it a story which is evolving in parts?

RUYMÁN: no, no. The ceremony is a way to let go in an eternal marriage with Arutam. It's a way to stay melted with the whole existence, without making any effort, in the dark taste of enlightening enchantments of the Ayahuasca. It is a way of knowing when we are wrong in our lives, when we are hurting ourselves. Your mind is still mechanical, linear, ordinary. A mind that enslaves time in its resistance, to conceal, painfully, the reality of its eternity. Maybe you are understanding some things, little by little. Anyway, I see a positive evolution in you. And I think you're going to continue. Better and better all the time. You have to start to make an effort, to let go a little more, and forget about the references. Look from an identity, to find more spaces of ease and light in your life. I'm sure you're going to get it.

QUESTION: I have also had other experiences to which I have been completely delivered. What can that mean?

RUYMÁN: the time will come when experience is a total relationship with existence. As long as the ordinary mind is abandoned and you lose the desire - and the faith in that desire - to keep it alive. One also gets bored, and decides to stay in the light of Life, just to shine indefinitely, like animals in the jungle.

Well, let's rest for a little while. Let's check the tobacco leaves.